Alpha, Attraction, Courtship, Tips and Philosophys

The Nice Guy vs. The Bad Boy- The Show Down

I apologize for the lengthiness of the blog but this is my defense case for the “Nice Guy” and anyone who wants to  be a “Nice Guy” but still get women.

So I recently got in a pretty good argument on the forum I am a participant in. It was an argument about the “nice guy”, and how he doesn’t get laid. I’m a “Nice Guy”, and I’m proud of being a “Nice Guy”, it’s underrated. Why can’t I be a “Nice Guy” and still get laid? I consistently see articles around the net about the “Nice Guy” and his follies but every time I read these articles they aren’t referring to just a “Nice Guy”.  The “Nice Guy” gets a bad rap but one thing is for sure is if you understand courtship and attraction you realize that being nice has nothing to do with how good or bad a guy is with women. I’m here to rescue the “Nice Guy” and let him know he doesn’t need to change how nice he is to women but he does need to change his behavior and mindset with women.

Very few men hold consistent success with women, so when I read things around the net like “Nice Guys” suck with women it seems an unfair assessment of the “Nice Guy”. How can you say all “Nice Guys” suck with women? How can this shit make any sense? I argue that a lot of “Nice Guys” are bad with women but the whole truth is most guys have shit for skills with women.

The “bad boy” gets love all around the net, he is the guy women want. He escalates, he is sexual, he does this, or that. I’m not saying a lot of “Bad Boys” don’t get women but I’d argue that the same amount of percentage of “Bad Boys” is bad with women as “Nice Guys”. Honestly I come across tons of “bad boys” with no skill at all with women. Are they sexual? Yes sometimes this is true but not all the time. Do they escalate more often? Sometimes but this I’d argue would be the top percentage of guys with women regardless of what they are considered personality wise (“Bad Boy or “Nice Guy”).  If you have no escalation skills it doesn’t matter what you are (“nice guy” or” bad boy”) you are bad with women.

I see people thinking the “Nice Guy” is needy, is too nice, ball-less, not sexual, no escalation skills, and well I hate to say this but this is most men.  Why? All of those behaviors are of men who lack confidence. Everywhere I look, I see things describing a “Nice Guy” that really describe someone without confidence. How is this fair? We don’t judge the general population of “Bad Boys” off of the low confidence one, but for some reason we do with the “Nice Guy”. I’d like to know how this is logical.

What’s a “Nice Guy”?

Honestly I’d like to know why these definitions exist of a “Bad Boy” vs. a “Nice Guy” for other people? I consider a “Nice Guy” to be a guy that is “Nice” who gets referred to as a “Nice Guy”. Not a guy who won’t make a move, or a needy guy, certainly not a guy who is ball-less or insecure. Why do all these other tags seem to get connected to the “Nice Guy”? Would you guys consider me a “Bad Boy” because I like to fuck women? Would I get considered a “Bad Boy” if I spanked a woman or bit her during sex? If so why the fuck does that make any sense?

Am I not being a “Nice Guy” guy by fucking her like she wants? Am I not being a “Nice Guy” because I know she wants me to talk dirty and saying some ruthless things about fucking her? It’s bullshit that the “Nice Guy” gets all this shit about how you aren’t a “Nice Guy” if you escalate or talk dirty. A “Nice Guy” can understand women sexually, it doesn’t make him a “bad boy” when he fucks women. You being sexual with women has nothing to do with whether you are a “Nice Guy” or “Bad Boy” in my humble opinion. Having a sexual understanding of a woman is be a “Nice Guy” if you ask me.

Understanding The Ladies Man

So what makes a man successful with women then if it isn’t a “Nice Guy” or “Bad Boy”? Well there are some things that really stand out with men that are good with women. The man could be nice, asshole, smart, dumb, short, tall, fat, skinny, good looking, or ugly, but what makes him actually good with women is he is a MAN with confidence and escalation skills. Here is a great example of what the nice guy gets considered.

This guy has balls but no confidence someone confident isn’t this needy(no confidence in head height or shoulders). The other guy rolls with total confidence and swagger. I have that type of behavior but it certainly is a lot nicer and a bit more playful.

I read everywhere how needy a “Nice Guy” is but that is completely incorrect someone who lacks confidence is needy. Confidence gives you the ability to be independent of others and not need their approval. Is a “Nice Guy” needy or is it his lack of confidence? Is a “Nice Guy” insecure or is it his lack of confidence? It’s his lack of confidence that makes him how he is (needy, insecure, ball-less) not him being a “Nice Guy”. I hate when I see this shit everywhere about the “Nice Guy” and how we all know what the “Nice Guy” is like. A guy without confidence doesn’t always equal a “Nice Guy”, someone without confidence can still be a “bad boy”. A “Nice Guy” doesn’t always lack confidence, I certainly don’t.

How a “Nice Guy” can be attractive?

There are several ways you can be attractive to women, among them is the Value/status and another is how good you make them feel. Value/Status is using a high value or high status to become an attractive mate, where you place yourself high with your body language, diction, stories, and attire. Making women feel good is using things like making her smile, laugh, arouse her in some way, and she will be attracted to you, but not always sexual. Being a MAN who is sexual and charismatic is the most successful style I’ve found for myself (you may be different than me). My style is all about charisma and charisma is all about raising people up to your level, meaning you are high value and they are going to need to be raised to your level by making them feel good and comfortable. If you are high value (confident in mindset as well), sexual, and making her feel good you got a lot going for you when it comes to building sexual attraction.

It’s a hell of a skill to say you can make almost anyone smile, and it’s your biggest super power when building attraction. You may not be able to change your height or your weight (at least overnight) but you can change how much you make people smile. Allan Pease said that people remember people as taller, skinnier, and more attractive when complimented by someone. There are tons of ways to make people feel good(smile and laugh), and it would be an entire book if I described them(several really), but the point is you can be a “Nice Guy”, a confident guy, a sexual guy, and a charismatic guy all at once.

The “Nice Guy” is also known for building a connection which is illustrated in a video I’ve posted in the past and posted a little later in this read.

What does the “Bad Boy” use?

The most attractive thing about a “Bad Boy” with women is ironically his selfishness, his boldness in being himself. A “Bad Boy” has 4 big perks in his belt: Confidence, Stress Free Attitude, Bravado, and the balls to escalate. Most of this links straight up to confidence to be honest someone who is confident doesn’t roll around stressing everything. Someone with confidence has bravado; you can see their confident body language that owns some dominance. Someone confident certainly has the balls to escalate(though balls to escalate doesn’t always mean confidence). You add all this up and see what I mean by it all goes back to confidence.

Having the balls to escalate isn’t always a good thing, you don’t hand someone the keys to a car with no clue about cars (like someone who never experienced a car ride) and say go learn to drive with no direction. They won’t know how to open the car, start the car, drive, take the parking break off, road laws, so if you are a “bad boy” with no escalation skills you are just as useless in the courtship process as a “nice guy” with no escalation skills. Every woman will think you come on too strong and while you will have some success it is really just a numbers game(60 Years of Challenge practices constant escalation), you won’t get every woman. At the same time if you aren’t coming on strong enough (“Nice Guy” issue) you have a problem only a tad bigger than a guy that comes on too strong all the time.

So yes the “bad boy” does practice some concepts that will get you laid with consistency but it also practices a numbers game style. You don’t learn to build attraction, you don’t learn to escalate intelligently, you don’t learn to read women, a man who is very good with women does all of these things. A “bad boy” may have more success than the “nice guy” because he tries tons more than the “nice guy”. His talents lay not in his abilities with women but with his willingness to make a move, there will be success with enough effort.

Here is an example: You can walk up to 100 different women and if you say it confidently enough ask her “do you want to fuck?” If you put yourself together well and say it right it will eventually work.  How often you succeed will depend on your attractiveness and confidence with this direct style. However you can use the style of a ton of direct pick up artists and start spotting the DTF woman, looking for her signals sent to you (approach cues), and then merely capitalizing. Adding a slight 2-3 second upper arm touch may help as well.

Every Type of Guy gets A Girl

A lot of times we think “oh this type of guy gets a girl more often” but the only thing that is true is confidence gets the girl, every type of guy gets a girl with confidence. In this video I don’t want you to pay attention to the conclusion they draw (the “nice guy” gets the girl too), I want you to pay attention to the fact that every one of the guys got A GIRL. They all had different styles but the one common trait they all have is they illustrated confidence and maintained strong eye contact. They all built their attraction differently (value (acting better than a girl) vs. connection (building a connection) vs. flirting/funny (making her feel good)).

The Social Chameleon

One thing never really discussed is how a man should be a mood ring for a woman. He should modify his temperature to hers. The only way to get nearly every woman you come across is to be a social chameleon (nobody can get every woman).  A man that knows how to be what a woman wants now will be great with women.

So being the flirty guy at the right time matters just as much as being the nice guy at the right time, as being the asshole at other moments. Each moment is different, a woman in one mood may prefer an asshole, while in another a nice guy, it’s important to realize in order for you to be good with women you need to understand how important it is to learn to be what a woman needs at this moment. A man that can read a woman, and be a social chameleon will be very good with women he will know what she needs by his intuition. Of course he will be able to do this with most people anyways, that is what makes him a Social Chameleon his ability to blend socially.

A summary of my thoughts on the “Nice Guy” vs. the “Bad Boy”

Being good with women is really a small set of characteristics that encompass so much of your own behavior in the courtship process.  It all starts with you learning to being a real man, this means not a boy or having any of that bs teenage attitude. Though I’m not against a little bit of boyish charm, I seem to use it with regularity. No excuses, you are decisive, you know what you want (confidence), and you go after it.

You are sexual, you are attractive and you get a woman with your confidence. It doesn’t matter whether you are a “nice guy”, “bad boy”, nerd, jock, smart guy, you merely need to be a sexual man with confidence and escalation skills to get a girl. No personality is more effective than the other, it is confidence that really is the most effective part of any man good with women. There is no need to change who you are but there is a need to up your confidence and gain an understanding of a woman’s feelings on sex(she wants it as much or in a lot of cases more than you). You should be content with yourself and realize it is not import to buy girls drinks, or taking them to expensive dinners to build attraction, just be attractive. You should also maintain a healthy out look on the female perspective of sex, she wants it. She realizes sex is fun, you are being a good person by providing her with what she wants.

Enjoy being who you are and people will enjoy who you are, unless your happiness is related to other people’s misery. The biggest reason you shouldn’t change who you are is because then you won’t find a woman that will like you for who you are at your core, if you want someone long term you will eventually  need her to fall for who you truly are, whether that is a “nice guy” or “bad boy” make sure it is truly you.

Peace and Love,


P.S. Since I wrote this post that True Core Confidence Mentioned here inspired me along with many inquiries to create a Self-Confidence and Happiness Program Available here: My True Core Self-Confidence and Happiness Program


About Science of Natural Game

I understand what it’s like to be that guy who struggles with women. I was god awful with women, I not once but twice went multiple years without sex, and I promise it wasn’t by choice. Ignorance played a large role in my issues with women, if I would have known now back in the days my dating life would have never slouched. I got desperate for affection with women, I wished I could have more. I read those pick up manuals, I read books by scientists on courtship. I went out and experienced what worked for me, and what “worked for others”. I found a process that makes every man skilled with women. I realized something else, yeah some of this stuff might work for some guys but we are all a little different and that’s a good thing… what I say may not be what you say, but there is a simple science and process to getting good with women and if you follow this process you will indeed be happy with your abilities with women. The most important thing for me is for you to be you, I don’t want to change who you are, I want you to love who you are, I want you to understand who you are, and I want you to be happy about all of it. I won’t ask you to dress up in peacocking outfit, I’ll ask you to be the most attractive guy by giving you skills and assets. Being you will be the peacock, will get you the attention of beautiful women. Most guys will simply tell you what to say and that will get you laid… but what happens when I am not here to tell you what to say? When what I have to say feels bland and not quite you? I don’t want you to be anyone else but you, the best you and the Man you want to be. I won’t tell you what to say, I’ll teach you to have a conversation. I won’t lie to you, I’ll tell you how it is and give you the facts. I won’t say it to be mean, I will say it for you to grow and become your best you with women and for you. I want you to be honest, knowledgeable, and sexy, and you will be when I’m done with you. Knowledge is power, and honesty is sexy…. I am not asking you to be anyone else, after all everyone else is already taken. If you need help or support with anything I am here, because I care about you. I want you to be a great, I want you to be all you can be. I want you to be your best self and that means I am here to support you in all your endeavors in life, not just with women but living the life you want… if you want to travel let’s figure out how, if you want to dance let’s teach you, if it’s weight loss let’s figure it out, if you want to surf let’s get you on a board, let’s give you the life you want and dream about, to let you be the you dream of being. I feel there is a process to getting women and more importantly getting good with women, it’s a science and if you follow the process it will work for you. Science isn’t about what’s true, as the truth is merely a perception science is the process we conclude will give us results… that’s what I give guys – results, the ability to get the women that will make them happy and help them live the life they love. Peace and Love, Vic


2 thoughts on “The Nice Guy vs. The Bad Boy- The Show Down

  1. great post

    Posted by Leonard Marks | 03/07/2012, 11:04 am

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